Just say no to Saeco

delicious.

2009-09-13T11:50:00.003-04:00

It's been awhile since the last update, because since the last time we got the espresso machine fixed, it hasn't broken down with the same problem as I described. It seems like they've finally gotten it right this time, and for that I'm (and I'm sure everyone in the household is) grateful.

This update is about something one of my family members learned recently. He spoke to another Saeco dealer and asked about the model of our machine (Incanto Rondò). Apparently, this model, as well as a Gaggia model (remember, Saeco also owns Gaggia), have a known defect in the machinery. This defect is in the electronics - a chip that detects when, for example, the water level is low, the basket with coffee grounds is full, or the hopper is empty.

Undoubtedly, this defect was present in both the first machine we had (the one we bought new), and in the machine the dealer we've dealt with swapped for ours. I say this so surely because the same issue arose with both machines, and I've said from the beginning that there must be something defective about the Rondò, since it's impossible for the same problem to occur over and over again if there weren't a defect.

This post, in no uncertain terms, is an I told you so post. Because I told them so. The first time that I went there and told them I wanted our machine traded in for a different model because there was a defect was the time they should have taken me seriously and realized maybe there was a problem. It's now literally more than two years since this saga began, and if they'd just listened to me from the start, perhaps they would have found the defect right then and there and fixed it - for us and whoever else unfortunately bought the Rondò - without putting us through this.

Or maybe, and this is pure speculation, they knew about the defect all along and because initially we were still under warranty, they had no incentive to actually repair the unit properly, just keep billing the head company for patchwork "repairs" that didn't really fix anything. Who knows. I don't, and I don't and would never trust another Saeco agent in the future because they failed on so many levels with customer service that I'm not sure if I'm alone here in wondering how they get business at all with that level of disrespect for its customers.

names/addresses edited out

2008-10-25T09:00:00.003-04:00

I was just told this morning by my parents that the general manager of Saeco called us to tell us he found this blog. I was on a business trip for the past two days, so he spoke to my mom.

Apparently, he spoke to his lawyer, too. I'm not sure the details there, as I didn't speak to him directly (he has my cell phone number; he could have called me directly), but I've edited out all the names and addresses from every post in this blog for my own protection. If you search on the Better Business Bureau website, you'll notice that Saeco in Toronto has an unresolved case; that one is the one that happened between us and them. You can find all the names and addresses there, in case you're wondering who to avoid if you're buying an espresso machine for your home. You should also check their listing on Hoovers for more information on the parent company. They recently bought Gaggia, so you might want to avoid that brand, too.

My parents asked me to take this blog down entirely, but I don't feel like that'd be the right thing to do. But I will update you on what happened since the last entry, so at least the readers of this blog know what the outcome was with our case.

When my parents got back from Italy, they told me they'd go speak to the general manager. They seemed adamant to get this resolved, and my mom was even saying they'd ask for a new machine. My dad went to speak with him, and to my annoyance, when I got home from work that day, the same Incanto Rondo machine was on our countertop. My dad explained that the general manager looked at the unit and gave us three bags of coffee beans (maybe the same value as the parts/labour we had to pay to fix the machine for the I-don't-know-how-many-th time). There really was no resolution there; just my dad being my dad, and avoiding confrontation because he's too nice.

After I saw the unit on our countertop, I pretty much gave up - simply because I have respect for my parents, and it was their money, so it's not like I'm the one who lost the battle here. If they can live with it, that's fine. I'd washed my hands of the entire matter at that point, but I was so disgusted that I couldn't bring myself to update this blog. I was literally that upset about it - I was embarrassed to make another entry saying that I'd given up, because it's not something I'm used to doing.

So we had the unit for less than a month, and once again, we had guests over, and the red light came on for no apparent reason.

My dad brought the machine in once again (if you're counting, this is the eighth time since March - the third time with the replacement demo-model they'd swapped with us), and finally, they found the problem: the sensor was broken or not working properly or something. So they replaced the sensor, and since then, we haven't had problems.

I have zero confidence that this machine will not break down again, and I have zero confidence in the Saeco brand, in general. And I will not take this blog down for any reason, because I feel that this entire ordeal should be public domain knowledge for the next person who decides to buy a very expensive espresso machine for their home.

I'm done talking about this for now. Actually, I was done talking about this the moment I realized that my parents weren't going to fight this anymore, but I felt compelled to update this since they asked me to take the blog down. They seem concerned because they don't want to encounter problems the next time the machine breaks down and they have to deal with the people at Saeco. I'll let you interpret that as you wish... to me, it sounds like they have zero confidence that we won't have to repair this thing again, either.

:)

1/4

2008-09-02T14:47:00.000-04:00

******** called me today on my cell phone. I was fittingly in a coffee shop here in Toronto, an independently run excellent hangout place (Urbana Coffee).

He was just catching up with messages, he said, and wanted to follow up with me. **** was supposed to call me last week; he didn’t. Apparently, **** wants to see the unit before he OKs anything else. He’s willing to give us a loaner for the time they take our machine. This will be the seventh time they are inspecting this unit – remember, this is the exchanged machine, their demo model. So it was five times that the first one had this issue, and it will be the second time they are looking at this one for the same issue.

I told ******** to call my mom, since they’re back from Italy and were planning to go in on Thursday to discuss this and settle it once and for all. I’m not sure what they will decide to do, but I hope they remember how many times we’ve brought the machine in, and how many times they’ve failed to fix the problem – that is, every time. But now, it’s somewhat out of my hands, and I await the outcome, as I have since March.

******** is the only person in that company who has shown me any consideration and respect. It’s too bad that it seems like he has no power to do anything for us directly, and we still have to deal with **** here. This could have been solved months ago if it were ******** who I initially dealt with – from the moment I went in myself and was humiliated by ******, and the numerous messages and phone calls I’ve placed to **** and ***** over the past five weeks that have gotten me nowhere. As always, I’ll keep updating as this slow, painful progression continues.

(names edited out 2008/10/25)

deadline missed

2008-09-01T12:00:00.000-04:00

My parents, the purchasers of the machine, are back from Italy. They've been away for five weeks, and during that entire time, Saeco was unable to resolve this for us. I've updated my parents on the status of our complaint, and all the steps I've taken to get someone to listen to me. Because my mom is retired, she will be going in to the shop during business hours and speaking to **** herself, since he is unwilling to meet us (or unable) at any other time, and there's no way I'm taking off time at work for this. My dad will probably go with her.

Let's hope they show my parents a little bit more respect than they've shown me, and let's hope they can come to the realization that we're not going to drop this. This is absolutely ridiculous. I started this blog in May, but this has been an ongoing headache since March, when I filed the BBB complaint and nothing got done. And it's been a year and a half living with TWO defective espresso machines that have been in and out of the shop six times.

I reiterate: JUST SAY NO TO SAECO. Please... just say no and avoid the pain and frustration we've encountered.

(names edited out 2008/10/25)

no closure.

2008-08-29T11:45:00.000-04:00

I left a message with ******** two days ago for a status update. He never returned my call. I left two messages today, one with ********, and one with ****, to please contact me before the long weekend. Nothing yet.

It does not bode well that they are so busy they can’t settle a customer service complaint as abhorrent as this one. Maybe they have so many other complaints they’re dealing with that mine is trivial in comparison. That’s the only conclusion I can draw.

Also, yesterday I received this email from the BBB:

Complaint ID#: XXXXXX
Business Name: Saeco Espresso & Cappuccino Machines

We have received your most recent correspondence in the above-mentioned complaint case.

You have indicated that you are NOT satisfied with the business' response in the matter.

The business has not made any further concessions to their original response.

Unfortunately, your BBB can not pursue the matter further. This complaint case is now considered closed as UNRESOLVED.

Your BBB develops and maintains Reliability Reports on companies in our service area. This information is available to the public and is frequently used by potential customers. The company's level of cooperation in resolving to this complaint becomes a part of their file with your BBB.

May we suggest contacting The Ministry of Government Services at 1-800-889-9768 or www.mgs.gov.on.ca if you wish to pursue this matter further.

Sincerely,
***** ******
Complaint Administrator
BBB
Complaint Department

LOL. Contact the Ministry of Government Services, eh? Ironic. I work for the government. :)

(names edited out 2008/10/25)

closure?

2008-08-24T18:53:00.000-04:00

Last week, the territorial manager, ********, came to our house to talk with us and look at the machine. He was polite, respectful, and was the first person to actually listen to us. We spoke for awhile, and I reiterated that I'd like a full refund so I can just buy my parents a new machine and get on with our lives. He reiterated that they've never done that, and it's not his call; it's ****'s. My brother mentioned that we'd be willing to pay the difference of an upgrade. Personally, that wouldn't be my choice, but it's not my money that paid for the machine. To be honest, not only would I never buy a Saeco again, but I'd never buy a superautomatic machine from any brand. They're really garbage these days, unless you go for a commercial-brand $5000 model of some kind. And then the upkeep is ridiculous. Meh. When I move into my condo, it'll be a semi-auto, for sure.

So ******** said he'd talk to ****, tell him our suggestion and concerns, and get back to us. He didn't call us last week, so I expect a call this week. Funny thing, while he was at our house, he made a couple of coffees, cleaned out the machine, and the red light came on for no reason. It made me happy that he was able to see that happen, live.

(names edited out 2008/10/25)

2 more messages placed

2008-08-20T08:59:00.000-04:00

Hi ****, this is meznor, calling on Wednesday, August 20. This is the second message I’m leaving you this week. If you could please give me a call to set up a time you or one of your service people could come by and take a look at our machine, I’d really appreciate it. You can reach me at XXXXXXX. Thanks.

And

Hi *****, this is meznor, following up about the problems we’ve been having with our machine. I’ve left **** two messages to call me and set up a time he could come and look at the machine. He was supposed to call me on Friday and never did. If you could follow up with him if you happen to see him, I’d really appreciate it. Thanks.

Update: **** called me promptly back. "Someone" is coming tonight at six to look at the unit. For the sixth time. I'll let you know what happens.

(names edited out 2008/10/25)

Me making the move again

2008-08-18T09:02:00.000-04:00

I left a message this morning to **** to please call me back at work or on my cell phone to set up a time he can come by and look at the machine. He never called me back or left a message since Friday when he said he would.

An update on the machine: According to the instructions in the manual, we thoroughly cleaned it out, like you're supposed to do about once a month or as needed. Descaled. It made half of one coffee, then the red light came back on. It's been doing this for the past month now, with more frequency than ever before.

(names edited out 2008/10/25)

Update

2008-08-15T13:48:00.000-04:00

Yesterday, I called ***** again, since **** failed to call me on Wednesday and failed to call me as of 2 p.m. Thursday. I left a message on her machine saying that I’d like to deal with her directly, since it was clear **** has no time for me, and has failed to return my call from two weeks ago on this matter.

Shortly thereafter, I received a call from ****. It was a somewhat hostile conversation. Apparently, he doesn’t appreciate my “sarcasm” and “bad attitude.” I told him bluntly what I was expecting – a full refund for the unit. I want to go in, drop off the machine, and get a refund. He said he refuses to allow that, and that he’d like to see the machine again to service it. I said I see no point in him servicing the machine, when, for the past six times we’ve brought it in, they’ve been unable to resolve the issue. At that point, he sounded like he was going to end the conversation – he said a few times, “I don’t see how we can resolve this if you don’t let me look at the machine”, or something along those lines. I told him I work Monday to Friday, 9-5, and since their store closes at 5:30 p.m. and he doesn’t work on weekends, it wouldn’t work out.

He offered to come by after work, after 6 p.m., to look at the unit at our home. I agreed. I asked if he could come Friday (today), and he said he’d have to see about it, to arrange a few things, and that he’d call me back in a few minutes. It was around 3:30 or 4 p.m. at this point, Thursday.

He never called me back, and hasn’t left a voice mail at my work number. That’s where this stands, again, with me respecting him and his company less and less.

Customer service 101: If you say you’re going to do something, you better do it.

They continue to fail me and show me very little respect or acknowledgment as a legitimately pissed off customer. Am I supposed to be happy and pleasant with them? Is that what he’s expecting? I have never encountered such an overall dreadful customer service response, from all levels of the company, in my entire life.

(names edited out 2008/10/25)

Phone calls placed / answered

2008-08-12T11:21:00.000-04:00

Hi **** , this is meznor, calling on August 12. This is the second message I'm leaving you regarding the BBB complaint. I hope you've been on vacation and that's why you haven't returned my call. But if you could please give me a call at work between 9-5 sometime this week at XXX or on my cell phone after 6pm at XXX. I'd like to get this resolved quickly.

and

Hi ******, this is meznor calling on Tuesday, August 12. This is regarding the BBB complaint I filed back in March of this year. Initially I did receive your response and closed the case, but we're still having problems with the machine. Please give me a call at work or on my cell phone. I'm very unsatisfied with the customer service response we received up to this point and I'd like to get this resolved as soon as possible. I also left two messages with **** ********, he'd left me a message at the beginning of August, but he hasn't returned my calls. So please give me a call this week. Thanks.

Response:

She called me back and washed her hands again, said **** is the one dealing with the case. She was irritatingly pleasant, seemingly oblivious of any history of this case, even though she was the contact person who replied to the BBB complaint. She said she can't do anything about the case, that **** is dealing with it, but if there were anything she could do for me to let her know. I just said I'd like this resolved quickly. She agreed and gave me **** 's cell number.

I called his cell, twice, during my lunch break. His mailbox is full. I left a call-back number. I'll try again later today. If I get nowhere, again, I'll call ****** and let her know that she's going to have to deal with this, because the response time is inadequate.

Update:

****** called me to let me know **** is at a conference and can't be reached until Thursday. She tried to set up a meeting with me, **** , and ******, the service person who initially disrespected and humiliated me. Of course, **** doesn't work on weekends, and I work weekdays, 9-5. I suggested a time after work, after 6pm, or on a weekend. She said she'd try to get a hold of him and get back to me.

Then, thinking about it, I reconsidered.

Why should I waste any more of my time on this? Why should I spend my time away from work dealing with a headache they created, and rearranging my personal schedule to suit them? I already met once with them, in March, and they had their chances (too many chances) to make this right, and they blew it. So I called her back, and let her know I refuse to waste any more of my time on this, and that I simply want this resolved. She basically washed her hands completely, saying she can't do anything since it's **** 's case to deal with, so I said make sure he calls me, then, seeing how I left him a message two weeks ago and he never returned my call. She said I should expect to hear from him tomorrow morning, providing he's available and that she gets a hold of him.

I'll give him until the end of the week to reach me. Then this will become her problem, and I'll keep going up the chain of command until someone deals with me.

I find it absurd, absolutely mind-boggling, that

I'm the one making all the effort to contact them, and
No one seems to want to deal with this, when the solution is so simple - has been so simple the entire time.

Absolutely mind-bogglingly irrational customer service response. I may need to write a letter to some newspapers and get this story published on a bigger scale than the Blogger community.

They have until the end of the week to refund all our money, hassle free and without attitude. I'd like to get the money back so I can buy a new (non-Saeco) machine before my parents come back from holidays.

(names edited out 2008/10/25)

Email to BBB

2008-08-12T10:18:00.001-04:00

I just noticed on the BBB site that the case listed below has been closed.

This case should not be closed. I am definitely not satisfied with their response, since I have received no response. I received a call from **** ********, the general manager of the store, a week and a half ago. I returned his call on Friday, August 1, 2008, and asked him to please call me so we can resolve this. He never called me back. Please reopen this case until he at least speaks to me. We are using our espresso machine as a cup warmer at this point - a $900 cup warmer. We want a full refund, without exception or hassle. This is becoming absurd. I will try to call him again tonight or tomorrow.

But it seems like their position has not changed, and we're left with a useless, very expensive coffee machine, without any ability to do anything about it. I'm not sure who to turn to at this point if the BBB cannot even put pressure on them to act and resolve this. I've sent letters to the head office in Bologna and in Montreal. Maybe they'll take me more seriously...

What's it gonna take... that's what I want to know. Are we just, simply, screwed?

(names edited out 2008/10/25)

Still no answer

2008-08-09T22:59:00.000-04:00

It's been a week since I left my message with the general manager, and he's failed to call me back. The letter has been sent to both the head office in Bologna and the head office in Montreal. I sincerely hope I hear from the manager this week to resolve this.

We use the machine now to warm our cups, while we use the manual mocha machine to make our coffee in the morning. The Saeco espresso machine has become a $1000 cup-warmer. Awesome.

sealed & delivered & emailed; & a phone call

2008-07-31T23:01:00.000-04:00

So I got a call from the manager at the distribution centre in Toronto. He gave me his number, as well as his cell number, and asked me to call him. I will call him tomorrow asking for a full refund with no exceptions because I'm done with this and want it over with as soon as possible. Too much of my energy has been wasted on such stupidity.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Letter to Saeco head office

2008-07-28T18:25:00.000-04:00

Monday, July 28, 2008

XXXX XXXX

XXXXXX

Toronto, Ontario

Canada

Saeco International Group, S.p.A.

Via Torretta, 240

40041 Gaggio Montano

Bologna, Italy

To the manager of customer service, or manager of worldwide distribution centres of Saeco products:

This letter expresses the dissatisfaction my family and I have with the Saeco Incanto automatic espresso machine, and also concerns the appalling customer service response we have received from the Saeco distribution centre at (address edited out 2008/10/25). Ms. ***** ****-*** is the operations manager at that location.

I will outline our grievances in this letter, indicating the issues we’ve had with the product as well as the utterly disrespectful manner in which I was treated. You may also wish to visit the Better Business Bureau (BBB) complaint I filed in May of this year regarding this matter, as it outlines the correspondence I’ve had with the operations manager: http://fds.com.

My family purchased a new Saeco Incanto automatic espresso machine about a year and a half ago. We had had a Saeco machine for many years – in fact, it still works, and makes coffee as well as it did when we first bought it. The reason we wanted to buy a new machine was to upgrade, and since we trusted the Saeco brand, we decided to buy from Saeco.

Within the first few months of buying the new machine, we encountered a problem with the red warning light. According to the manual, a red light automatically comes on when

The receptacle that catches coffee grounds is full;
The water level is low and needs to be refilled;
The receptacle that catches excess water is full; or
The coffee bean hopper is empty.

To our annoyance, the red light would come on sometimes when none of the above conditions occurred. Too often, we would open the machine to find nothing was wrong, and when we closed it, the light would remain on and the machine wouldn’t make coffee. Only after unplugging it, opening it up, waiting several minutes, pushing the button several times, and wasting many coffee beans, would the light finally turn off. It was frustrating, to say the least.

My father brought the machine into Ms. ****-***’s distribution centre. Apparently, they outlined the conditions the red light would come on, and told him we must have been doing something incorrectly. He brought the machine home, and it worked fine for awhile. But the problems did not end there.

My father brought the machine in at least four times for this same problem, which continued to occur. After arguing with my dad for months about what we should do, since he was convinced it was our fault this was happening and I was convinced there was something wrong with the machine, I finally went to the distribution centre myself.

I brought the machine in, and a worker there named ****** asked me what the problem was. I told him that we’ve encountered the same problem for the past eight months, and each time we brought in the machine, nothing was done to try to fix it; instead, we were told that we were doing something wrong, and I didn’t believe that was true. He was quite impatient with me, and continued to say that nothing was wrong with the machine, and that we must be doing something incorrectly. He also said he didn’t like my attitude, and it seemed he had little respect for me as a young woman, as I look much younger than my age; his tone was patronizing and offensive. He repeated the reasons that the red light would come on, at which point I grew impatient and told him I knew very well the reasons the light would come on – that the problem was the red light didn’t turn off. I wanted to speak to a manager, but he kept telling me that his manager was not there.

To prove me wrong, he plugged in the machine, filled the hopper, checked all the receptacles to ensure they were set, and made coffee after coffee, dumping them out in a sink, and waiting for the red light to come on. Then, he would empty the unit, fill up the hopper, fill up the water, and repeat the process. The red light came on, he’d reset the machine, and the light turned off. He went through three cycles of this – I was standing there for 30 or 40 minutes, telling him that he was wasting my time and wasting coffee, because this wasn’t something that happened all the time; but it was certainly a problem that occurred often enough that it was clear to us there was a problem with the unit.

I refused to leave that day without having our machine replaced, and felt humiliated with how he treated me. I insisted on speaking to a manager, and after 40 minutes of asking, he finally called his manager to speak to me – his manager had been in the office the entire time. I repeated my situation, for the third time that day, and told the manager that I either wanted the machine replaced, or I wanted a refund. He repeated what ****** had told me, that their policy does not allow them to do either, but I negotiated with him and he agreed to exchange their demo model, which was the same model as ours, for our unit for a period of about a month. I told him that if we didn’t have problems with theirs, then we would exchange ours for theirs. He warned me that by doing this, we’d be giving up our warranty and would not have access to the labour expenses if anything happened to it.

A month passed and we didn’t have problems with their demo model. My father went back and formally exchanged serial numbers, and was also told we gave up our warranty by doing that. He agreed. Sure enough, after a few months, we encountered the same issue with their demo model. My father returned, for a fifth time, to have the demo model fixed. At this point, I had already filed my complaint to the BBB.

They charged us for labour costs, and after two weeks of keeping the machine and working on it, they said it was working perfectly fine, and once again, made it seem like we were doing something wrong. After that, the machine worked for a few months without encountering the problem with the red light. However, over the past two weeks it’s been acting up again; we’ve unplugged the machine and put it away. This is what prompted me to write this letter to your head office, because I’m tired of arguing with my father, and I’m tired of dealing with the people at the distribution centre. I’m at a loss of what I can do at this point.

This situation has resulted in many arguments within my family, and many instances of waking up, getting ready for work, and being left without espresso in the morning. We’ve also been left during more than one dinner party without espresso to serve to our guests because the red light would come on and not turn off. Perhaps these are trivial things when compared to the daily stresses we all encounter, but it is nevertheless disheartening, because we shouldn’t encounter stress from products, and we definitely shouldn’t encounter stress from the representatives of those products who are supposed to ensure they’ve done everything to satisfy their customers.

This whole situation has left me with a very bitter taste for the Saeco brand. Truly, I would never buy a Saeco product, as I’ve lost all trust in the quality of their products, and am moreover dismayed by the response I received from their representatives. As a result, all my friends and coworkers also know about this experience, and I’m sure more than a few of them will think twice about buying Saeco.

My father has been incredibly patient, and this was the direct source of my arguments with him: If it were me, I would have demanded a refund or replacement after the second time he had to bring in the machine. As it is, Ms. ****-***’s staff have had five chances, and failed to do anything for us.

I hope you read this letter and take it very seriously. From what I’ve read on internet discussion boards reviewing the Saeco Incanto, I’m not the first one to notice the chronic problems it has.

Please let me know what you intend to do, if anything, about this situation. I hope you will take the responsibility to acknowledge the frustration and stress we’ve unnecessarily been put through over this.

Sincerely,

XXXX XXXX

(names edited out 2008/10/25)

Why Saeco Sucks, reopened

2008-07-22T23:18:00.000-04:00

Thank you for using the Better Business Bureau's Online Complaint System.
Your complaint has been assigned case # XXXXXX.
Correspondence regarding this complaint will be emailed to :XXX
Please print a copy of this for your records.

Filed on : July 22 2008

Filed by :
XXXXXXXX

Filed against :
Saeco Espresso & Cappuccino Machines
(address edited out 2008/10/25)

Complaint Description:
This is the second time I'm filing a complaint against Saeco, as this complaint now deals with the same model as the first one which is having the exact same problems. Please also refer to BBB case #: XXXXX. We've been using the Saeco Incanto espresso machine since about May of this year (2008). We swapped our original machine with the distributor's demo model, since ours was defective - the red light kept coming on at times when there was no reason for it to come on, and it would not make coffee each time this happened. The red light would remain lit even after following procedures which the Saeco customer service reps told us to follow. We returned the machine about four times, at which point I would not leave unless they replaced it. At that point, we made an agreement to try their demo model for a month. We did not have problems during May 2008, and formally exchanged our model for theirs. Since then, the machine has not worked optimally. Once again, we had to return the machine for repairs, and since our warranty was with the original model, had to pay labour costs for the repair. It's now the end of July, and we've encountered the exact same problems with the machine that we had with our original machine. It's obvious to us, after five times of bringing in the same model to the repair shop, that the model is defective.

Your Desired Resolution:
We want our money back, quite simply. All of it, including the cost of labour for returning their demo model for repairs the fifth time. We will never buy Saeco again, and we will encourage our friends to never buy Saeco, either. I am completely appalled at this situation and will also be contacting Saeco's head office myself to let them know their distribution company in Toronto is potentially losing them hundreds or thousands of customers due to the incredibly poor handling of this situation.

This case will be reviewed by a complaint specialist at the Better Business Bureau, and then forwarded to the business for their response. It is our policy to allow the business 30 working days to respond to your complaint. You will be notified when the business has responded.

Why Saeco Sucks

2008-05-05T17:55:00.000-04:00

Correspondence with the BBB.

Consumer's Original Complaint :
Over the past two years, we've had to take it in for repair at lest five times. Each time, the service people told us we were doing something wrong. I finally went there myself to show them it didn't work. The service person, ******, was extremely rude to me, and had me stand there for 45 minutes while he wasted coffee beans, trying to prove me wrong - making coffee after coffee, waiting for the red light to come on, and proving that the machine was fine. I asked for his manager, and finally, he let me see him. At this point, I would not have been happy except to receive a new machine. Instead, he lent us their demo model for a month. We made a formal exchange. Eventually, the demo model had the same problems - the red light comes on, stays on, and doesn't come off.

UPDATE RECEIVED APRIL 14/08 - Apparently, my dad took in the machine. They have not acknowledged our complaint. They kept the machine for over two weeks. They didn't change anything in the machine, and handed it back to us. And they charged us for the labour.
I'm going to pay them a visit on Monday.

Consumer's Desired Resolution:
At this point, I would like a full refund for what we paid. I do not trust the Incanto model. After going through two of them, and with both having the same problem develop over less than six months, I have no confidence that a replacement will be any different. I do not trust the Saeco brand anymore, and I don't like their customer service reps, who made me feel like it was all our fault, when clearly, the model is defective. ******'s boss was very nice, but ****** stood there defiantly, refusing to listen to me, and treating me with no respect whatsoever. In fact, he said he didn't like the tone of my voice, and that I had a bad attitude. This was the fourth or fifth time in less than a year and a half that we had to take this machine in; should I have pretended to be happy?

BBB Processing

2008-03-21 web BBB Complaint Received by BBB
2008-03-24 KAS BBB Complaint Validated by BBB Operator
2008-03-24 Otto EMAIL Send Acknowledgement to Consumer
2008-03-24 Otto EMAIL Inform Business of Complaint
2008-04-08 OttO BBB No response to first notice to business
2008-04-08 OttO EMAIL Second Notice to Business
2008-04-21 OttO BBB NO RESPONSE RECEIVED FROM BUSINESS ON 2ND NOTICE : Apr 23/08 - sent fax to XXX-XXX-XXXX
2008-04-29 FMD BBB Inform Consumer No Response from Business
2008-04-29 Otto EMAIL Inform Consumer - Case Closed UNANSWERED
2008-04-29 Otto EMAIL Inform Business - Case Closed UNANSWERED
2008-04-29 Otto BBB Case Closed - UNANSWERED
2008-05-02 FMD BBB ReOpen the Complaint
2008-05-02 FMD BBB RECEIVE BUSINESS RESPONSE : According to our records there seems to be no serious fault with the equipment during the time that Ms. XXX owned it and while it has been in for service. In fact we did authorize an exchange for the initial model that the customer purchased simply as a courtesy to the customer. We have since sold the unit we have not once seen this unit back for repair.

Our product is backed by a 1 year full manufacturer's warranty and an additional 4 year warranty on the brew group. We would be happy to re-asses the product should the customer be so kind as to bring the product in for service.

Should you have any further questions or concerns please feel free to contact me at any time.

Thank you kindly,

*****

***** ****-***
Operations Manager, Saeco Ontario Ltd.

(Address edited out 2008/10/25)

2008-05-02 FMD EMAIL Forward Business response to Consumer
2008-05-05 WEB BBB CONSUMER SATISFIED- WITH LETTER : (The consumer indicated he/she ACCEPTED the response from the business.)
We have not had problems with the unit since the fifth time we brought it in, but I have little confidence that we won't see problems in the future. But it is very telling that the only time your technicians have actually kept the machine and worked on it to fix it is after I filed this complaint; whereas, the previous four times we brought the machine in, your technicians insisted we were doing something wrong and made us feel like we're incapable of pushing a button and removing coffee grounds from a machine without breaking something.
I only accept this response because my father has urged me to let it go, and I respect his wishes.
The fact that you have not responded to the appalling customer service problem is not surprising to me because your technicians and supervisors at that location have been anything but respectful or courteous to me. As a result, I'll never buy a Saeco product again, and you should not doubt that I will tell people of this almost totally negative experience with representatives from this company.

Don't buy Saeco. Period.